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May 05, 2008



That last picture is like the cutest thing ever. Moo!


I think the dairy industry did a great brainwash job on you. Get the facts correct. A dairy farm is a concentration camp, nothing else.

Lori V.

Thanks for stopping by, Lobo. I wish you would have actually read the post before commenting. If you had, you'd know I actually visited a dairy farm on 24 hours notice. That is definitely not enough time to make sweet, well-fed cows. I saw and interacted with these cows, and they were not afraid of their owner in any way, nor were most of them at all fearful of strangers; they were well-taken care of, almost to the point of spoiled. You'd also know that I don't support the whole dairy industry, only the small, local farmers who actually treat their animals with love and respect. The last time I checked, concentration camps don't feed their prisoners regularly, let them have access to free food of the kind they naturally love, or care for them when they are sick.


Hello there, thanks for replying to my comment. I had read your post before commenting but I still stand by the concentration camp analogy. If the cows you saw are well fed, that's only because it converts back into money for the farmer. You say the local farmer loves and respects his/her cows - surely pulling out their horns and separating them from their babies is a great way to show affection. And in the end, dairy cows will be killed too, adding a whole new dimension to the expression, 'love kills'. I know what you're trying to say: that small farms are 'humane'. But I think that's a false concept. As long as animals are treated as commodities to serve man, their treatment will never be humane, perhaps less horrible in some cases. Besides, cow's milk is not necessary for humans, in fact it can be harmful. I just wish people would stop seeing farm animals as mere property and look at them for what they really are: amazing, affable creatures with incredible intelligence, who, like all living creatures, would choose freedom over slavery.

Lori V.

Hi, Lobo. Thanks for coming back; I was worried about the possibility of a drop-in "troll."

I agree with your statement that these are "amazing, affable creatures with incredible intelligence, who, like all living creatures, would choose freedom over slavery." Unfortunately, I think this represents a very naive and unrealistic viewpoint. Do you also disagree with keeping dogs and cats and other domesticated animals as pets? They are, realistically speaking, to serve us and our need for comfort. Are you implying that nomadic camel or reindeer herders are inhumane?

Coming from 200+ acres in beautiful forest land, I know that sometimes animals must be killed humanely in order to save them from suffering from starvation or disease because of overpopulation. And so we have, on occasion, eaten venison, killed by hunters. We do not allow sport hunters on the property, but if they eat their kill, they provide a necessary service. Would you rather the deer die from a bullet or a savage coyote attack?

Man has been utilizing the meat and milk of other animals for millennia. We are animals, plain and simple, and we have a fortunate place on the food chain: at the top. This is no accident of nature. Every species has its own predators and prey, including humans.

Unfortunately for us, we are also gifted with empathy. It is conflicting to our natures, and we must all deal with it in our own way. For my part, I accept that we are carnivores at the top of the food chain, but I can temper this with compassion by choosing carefully how the animals were treated and slaughtered.


Hi Lori, thanks for another comment. I can see your points and it's great that you have brought up the concept of empathy. This is what makes us humans. We used to kill each other as well (we still do, but it's a crime when it happens) and we have evolved. We can't justify things simply because they 'have always been like that'. We can move on and we should. Humans are not carnivores, and a plant-based diet is much healthier for us and much more environmentally-friendly. As to the the overpopulation problem, well, if we stop breeding animals, then gradually bovine, swine and avian populations will be reduced to a number where people with land can keep them with no economic interest. I understand they have lost their natural habitats because we have destroyed them so we owe them sanctuaries and similar places. We really should be looking at our own overpopulation problem, which will do us in before the end of this century. As to pets, we should only have them if they are rescued animals. We should never buy them because they are not things. Besides, buying puppies contributes to the shelter crisis. Wishing you all the best, I hope you'll be considering a vegetarian diet in the near future. Lobo


Hi there, just another extra point that I forgot to mention in the last comment. About the humane, 'happy' meat movement: While I welcome improvements in animal welfare (banning battery cages and gestation crates for example), I think the idea that you could provide this type of product to six billion plus people is even more unrealistic and naive than convincing people to stop eating meat. While the concept of eating meat persists on the scale that it exists now, so will factory farming and all the horrors that come with it. It's a simple mathematical issue. Anyway, that will be from me. I also apologize for the bluntness of my first comment. Thank you!

Lori V.

Thanks for a lively discussion, Lobo. As always, "You comment. I reply." It's a movement! :-)

Regarding "justification" of things, because they've always been a certain way, I agree *to some extent.* We have evolved in many ways. However, since we do, indeed, still kill each other, it would seem that we haven't evolved quite as much as you'd like to think. As for murder being a crime now, consider that premeditated murder carries a harsher sentence than a crime of passion. We accept that there are still animal tendencies within all of us. Also, do we know for certain that murder was not looked down on in prehistoric times? Also, we still have canine teeth; yes, they are smaller than theyAlong the same point, your argument seems to suggest that current nomadic peoples should abandon their traditional way of life (which includes eating and milking goats, camels, and reindeer), that perhaps they are less evolved somehow; just because they've always lived like that doesn't mean they should now. After all, our more modern lifestyles seem to be a panacea, right? ;-)

Regarding overpopulation, I think your point might be better regarded, again, if I hadn't seen overpopulation in progress. We don't breed deer, yet their populations aren't "gradually dying down." Besides, do you think those populations will "gradually die down" quietly and peacefully? No, they will starve and they will suffer.

BTW, I agree wholeheartedly with the human overpopulation point. I also mostly agree with the pet issue; most of our pets are "strays," "throwaways," or "extras": six dogs and four cats.

Toward your last point, I think it would be much easier to convince the public at large to eat "less meat" than to eat "meatless." Daily meat-eaters will never respond to guerilla tactics that PETA has adopted, except with disgust and more meat-eating. Approaching it from a health standpoint would be a much better idea. (I don't believe full veganism is MORE healthy, but daily meat consumption at 1//2 to one full pound is definitely worse; it's all about moderation, not abstinence.)

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